A brief message I sent to our house church ahead of a meeting that I was going to miss about how one ought to relate to the Bible:
As for the questions [my friend] is posing tonight at church, my two cents (God help me and may it be of some value): The Bible is our touchstone. If you can’t square it with the Bible, you can’t square it with God. But importantly, there are two touchstones within the touchstone: the greatest commandment(s) and Jesus himself. All interpretation and application of Scripture must be subject to those.
Even here, people sometimes come to different conclusions on some matters. (In this, we mimic a milennia-or-two longer Jewish dialogue on the same subject.) While we argue these things out—because these matters are often not unimportant—we nevertheless grant these differences and love always.
Professing Christianity is what Renn calls a “status-enhancer” when and only when the Christianity one professes is in step with what your society already and without reference to Christian teaching describes as “being an upstanding citizen.”
Living unanxiously mindful of your own certain death is probably salutary. Living unanxiously mindful of the certain death of those you love might be even more so.
Love itself is the prime spiritual discipline. All others, including Bible study and prayer, are good only insofar as they serve to empower, amplify, or inform love.
Pianists don’t cultivate their skill and musicianship by reading books on the history of piano music or by talking with composers, as enriching and obliquely helpful as that might be. They improve by playing piano.
Similarly, the way you get better and more consistent at loving is by trying to love.
In reply to a piece of email correspondence in which Ethan indicated an eagerness to incorporate “communion” into our weekly church schedule:
I’m not sure I’m game for the “every week” part yet myself, so let’s slow down on that and make sure to subject it to consensus. Part of my concern is procedural—ensure consensus for all such decisions—but part of my concern might also be personal: I maintain a tenuous sense of what His body being given and His blood being poured out “for [me]” even means.
Or maybe it’s not tenuous but feels that way because it’s substantially different from what I think most of us learned growing up, and I haven’t had much chance to share (and thus practice knowing) it. Maybe I’ll make it part of what I share when I tell the story of my life and the life of God in and around me.
“Died for us” and “died for our sins” are obviously crucial Jesus’ whole shebang. But I don’t want to establish a ritual around those concepts if I don’t have a firm grasp on what they mean. I could see us spending a whole meeting teaching each other about this and discussing this…
Anyway, no immediate actions out of the above. Let’s yes set aside time to ritualistically break bread and drink sparkling grape juice this Friday (provided there’s no objection from anybody else at the time) and then take it from there. I bet doing it this once will make the topic of doing it more often come up naturally. But let’s not be pre-married to the idea of doing it every week yet. Please.
The important part for me in leisure is a deliberate decision to engage and stay engaged. “…do it with all your might…” Remember the lesson of the ceiling at the Upper Room.
As I’ve left the penal substitutionary atonement understanding of things, I’ve come to believe that God’s forgiveness was present before the Cross and that the blood of Jesus was not legally necessary for God to forgive sins: It was necessary for us to understand it. Because of this, I don’t see forgiveness in legal terms, but rather in terms of relationship: We simply return to Him, which was available pre-Christ as well.
Yet there are many troubling passages which allude to a legal understanding, as in “If you do this, then legally you’re out of mercy.” Among them Hebrews 10:
> For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there is no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a terrifying expectation of judgment and the fury of a fire which will consume the adversaries. Anyone who has ignored the Law of Moses is put to death without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. How much more severe punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled underfoot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace? For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay.” And again, “The Lord will judge His people.” It is a terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the living God (vv. 26-31).
What do you do with passages like this? And how do you see the work of the Cross? I feel like I have to keep going around this tree to understand the PSA theory and there are certainly a lot of scriptures that affirm that understanding of things.
me:
My short answer to any question about the New Testament’s talk of Jesus’ blood, sacrifice, and the resulting cleansing from sin: What’s wrong with a little metaphor?
Of course, it’s not all metaphor. Jesus really did make a sacrifice, viz., a relinquishment of something to gain a greater good. And it really was bloody. And it really does have an effect on sin. But don’t completely literalize the reference to the Levitical system, especially in a book that’s explicit that God doesn’t want that kind of sacrifice.
It also helps to always keep the following two and a half facts in mind:
Who killed Jesus? People, not God (although Jesus did relinquish his life willingly).
Could God forgive without the Cross? As you’ve already said, yes.
Now, the beginning of my long answer to your specific question goes like this: For my part, I don’t see a legal understanding in the passage you cite. But in it I do see most of your paraphrase—“If you do this, then … you’re out of mercy.” And you’re right that this idea isn’t unique to Hebrews. You’ll find it in:
2 Peter 2:20-22,
James 2:13, and
Matthew 6:14-15,
along with echoes of it in any passage implying an only conditional, potentially temporary efficacy of salvation (Mark 4:16-19, 1 Corinthians 15:1-2, 1 John 2:24, 2 John 1:8, Revelation 3:1-5; see also Matthew 7:21-23, Luke 9:62, and John 8:11).
So, how does Jesus once-for-all sacrifice (Hebrews 7:27, 9:12, 10:10; Romans 6:10) have its good effect on our sin? And, understanding that effect, how can it be that it can be nullified?
More than a few books have been written to answer the first question. And I think you’ve done a lot of thinking on the subject yourself that will help you interpret the second. Here’s the tip of the iceberg of my response, based mostly on Hebrews itself:
Note the very first way the writer of Hebrews says we are saved. It’s been one of your favorite biblical phrases of late: “Since the children share in flesh and blood, He Himself likewise also partook of the same, so that through death He might destroy the one who has the power of death, that is, the devil, and free those who through fear of death were subject to slavery all their lives” (Hebrews 2:14-15, emphasis mine). Two sentences later, this very liberation is put into terms closer to those of chapter ten: “Therefore, he had to be made like his brothers and sisters in every way. This was so that he could become a merciful and faithful high priest in things relating to God, in order to wipe away the sins of the people” (v. 17, CEB). The two concepts—removal of sins and freedom from the fear of death—are related.
And now I’ve got to go to work. More later. Hopefully we can boil this stuff down when we’re done.
me again:
Lemme see if I can finish this now. Perhaps a dose of hurry-up-you’ve-got-to-go-to-work will get this stuff out faster.
God doesn’t need blood sacrifice to forgive sins. God instituted (or allowed the Israelites to believe that He instituted) various blood sacrifices because that’s what they could comprehend as the way to be reconciled to God. And indeed, it’s worthwhile to see that sin and estrangement from God cost something. But God Himself doesn’t need it.
It’s no different with Jesus. God didn’t need Jesus’ sacrifice to forgive sins. Israel may have needed to see it that way for a time for them to have any chance of a crucified messiah making any sense to them. But more to the root of things, God has always been in business of, for our good and as an expression of His essential character, subjecting Himself to human misconstrual and resistance and not being overcome by it, defeated by it, or cowed into giving up on going for His rightful, very loving, very beneficent reign among us. On the Cross, God goes as far as He can go in doing that by allowing humanity to do its very worst to Him and then overcoming it. He overcomes it by utterly refusing to retaliate—indeed, by offering forgiveness and “times of refreshing” (Acts 3:19)!—and by raising Jesus from the dead.
Thus, He has proven that He is not a “hard man” (Matthew 25:24). He really is slow to anger—the only thing that makes Him mad are things that keep people from Him and from flourishing—and abounding in mercy, as the Old Testament always said.
And thus, He has shown that we are not to fear death—neither as annihilation nor as the doorway to unjust, unkind divine judgement.
So if you sin willfully after learning this stuff, the “sacrifice for sins” goes away for you in Hebrews 10:26 because there’s nothing more God can do this side of heaven to convince You that He is not like you thought, that life’s not a bitch and then you die, and that therefore sin, which hurts other people and rejects God’s loving kingship, is not worthwhile. Was the Incarnation not enough? Was Jesus’ ministry not enough? Was His subjection to gruesome, unjust execution at the hand of your fellow men not enough? Was His resurrection not enough? Was His refusal to retaliate upon His resurrection not enough? Well then nothing will be enough. You’re trampling underfoot the Son of God, regarding His sacrifice as unclean, and insulting the Spirit of grace (i.e., gift). There will be terrifying judgment for that, and as long as you hold that view, you are by definition in outer darkness.
By the way, given its very nature, the sacrifice for sins doesn’t actually cease to exist in some ontological sense. It only becomes unavailable, in an epistemic sense, if you sin willfully. And read 1 John 1:7–2:2 and Luke 17:3-4 and tell me the sacrifice doesn’t become immediately available to us again upon confession and repentance.
So none of this is legalese. It is utter, self-sacrificial Gift from the king of the cosmos and its refusal. Think of how you’d feel if you went all out, liquidating all your net worth so you could buy [your wife] a gift that cost that much—and then her not believing that you love her and acting against your wishes and hurting herself and others and spurning you. Would’t you be a little angry? Wouldn’t you be righteous in calling her ungrateful? Might you not cast her out of your house for a time?
Of course, we’re judged in light of what we know. If we haven’t fully received a knowledge of the truth, which is the prerequisite for Hebrews 10:26ff to take effect, then God will not judge us as harshly. If [your wife] couldn’t or didn’t know how much you paid, failed to see why you gave her the gift in the first place, couldn’t grasp what good it accomplished, or, say, didn’t know who you were, you wouldn’t be harsh at all. It’s only those who have received a knowledge of the truth and then sin willfully who will have to face a severe judgment.
“Fathers, don’t exasperate your children, but nourish them in the Lord’s paideia and instruction” (Ephesians 6:4, mine).
“But love your enemies and do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return; and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High; for He Himself is kind to ungrateful and evil people. Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful. Do not judge, and you will not be judged; and do not condemn, and you will not be condemned; pardon, and you will be pardoned. Give, and it will be given to you. They will pour into your lap a good measure—pressed down, shaken together, and running over. For by your standard of measure it will be measured to you in return” (Luke 6:35-38).
“A gentle answer turns away wrath, but a harsh word stirs up anger” (Proverbs 15:1).
“I give you a new commandment: Love each other. Just as I have loved you, so you also must love each other. This is how everyone will know that you are my disciples, when you love each other” (John 13:35, CEB).
“While Jesus and his disciples were traveling, Jesus entered a village where a woman named Martha welcomed him as a guest. She had a sister named Mary, who sat at the Lord’s feet and listened to his message. By contrast, Martha was preoccupied with getting everything ready for their meal. So Martha came to him and said, ‘Lord, don’t you care that my sister has left me to prepare the table all by myself? Tell her to help me.’ The Lord answered, ‘Martha, Martha, you are worried and distracted by many things. One thing is necessary. Mary has chosen the better part. It won’t be taken away from her’” (Luke 10:38-42).
“He who withholds his rod hates his son, but he who loves him disciplines him diligently” (Proverbs 13:24).
“Be glad in the Lord always! Again I say, be glad! Let your graciousness show in your treatment of all people. The Lord is near. Don’t be anxious about anything; rather, bring up all of your requests to God in your prayers and petitions, along with giving thanks. Then the peace of God that exceeds all understanding will keep your hearts and minds safe in Christ Jesus” (Philippians 4:4-7).
“…[Jesus] in [me] and [the Father] in [Jesus], that [we] may be perfected in unity, so that [we] may be perfected in unity, so that the [kids] may know that [the Father] sent [Jesus], and [the Father] loved me, just as [the Father] loved [Jesus]” (John 17:23).
All of the above except for the Martha and Mary bit, the excerpt from Philippians, and the substitution-heavy quotation from John came to me last night on a walk I took up and down Balmoral Way by myself just after a similar walk Carla and I took in which I was grumpy and we discussed, seemingly to little good, how it is that I feel so frustrated with the kids sometimes and speak them accordingly. It was seemingly to little good because Carla took it as another opportunity to insist that I see a counselor. Perhaps more helpfully, she did say that she thinks I expect too much of the kids and out of the kids.
But Lord, You are a wonderful counselor Yourself, and you proved it yet again last night.
The fact is, I’ve been worried about Sullivan and Éa. I worry that our relationships don’t look like the kindred feeling I have with, say, Ethan. They’re not enthusiastic about the same things about which I’m enthusiastic—namely, You. They’re wrapped up in television shows, Minecraft, and carbohydrate-heavy foods. I’m worried I’m going to leave them without a spiritual legacy because I didn’t lead them correctly to You.
But what is it I really want of them? I want them to be loved and know it, both as an end in itself and that they may love You and others in turn. The only way to inculcate that is to quit wringing my hands over their performance and demonstrate the Love! Monkey see, monkey do! Right now, the only good they seem to know of me am to them is as a provider. They need to know it’s more than that: That I joyfully care about and care for them and caringly enjoy them. They’ll know where I get the Love if I love them. The greatest apologetic argument is a life lived abiding in Jesus.
I’ve already grown more gentle this morning as a result of Your input, and their response and responsiveness to me have already improved.
So don’t worry about them. Don’t worry about anything. Be gentle. Be patient. Don’t fret their salvation. Just love them. What kind of education and instruction is Jesus’? Think about that? How would Jesus treat Éa and Sullivan?
As for life more generally, I asked You whether I should abandon my scheduled approach to life. You said no, my structure is good. But I should just listen for Me all the while. Hold on loosely to your plans. Don’t be greedy or anxious about accomplishment or checking off boxes. Dismiss the oughts and act in grateful, joyful love only. Sullivan and Éa will feed on that easygoing, lighthearted life in Love, in Jesus.
How do you reconcile the antinomy between these two excerpts from the Sermon on the Mount?
You are the light of the world. A city set on a hill cannot be hidden; nor do people light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on the lampstand, and it gives light to all who are in the house. Your light must shine before people in such a way that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven (Matthew 5:14-15).
and
Take care not to practice your righteousness in the sight of people, to be noticed by them; otherwise you have no reward with your Father who is in heaven…[W]hen you give to the poor, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your charitable giving will be in secret…[W]hen you pray, go into your inner room, close your door, and pray to your Father who is in secret…[W]hen you fast, anoint your head and wash your face, so that your fasting will not be noticed by people but by your Father who is in secret; and your Father who sees what is done in secret will reward you (Matthew 6:1,3-4,6,17).
I observed a prayer ministry session with a lady who would pray aloud and then the answers from God back to herself, out loud in continuous dialogue. I took notes during this awesome conversation and weighed carefully what was being shared. At times her grief and panic came through in the questions. “Oh dear, oh dear! What shall I ever do?” She would cry. Then the calm voice of the Lord would respond with gentleness and comfort: “My daughter, there is no need for fear. I am with you. Hold my hand, and I will lead the way.” This would continue for hours as God did his own marvellous [sic] therapy of the soul.
[…]
If you struggle with static when trying to listen, you might her simple method a try.
— Brad Jersak • Can Your Hear Me? (2003)
So there’s precedent for how I best hear Your voice!
Then God said, “Let the waters teem with swarms of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth in the vault of the heavens.” God created the great sea monsters and all the living creatures that swarm in the waters, each according to its kind, and all the winged birds, each according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. God blessed them, saying “Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let birds multiply on the earth” (Genesis 1:20-22).
When I read “Let the waters teem with swarms of living creatures” a week or two ago as I finished my usual solo lunch in the main conference room at DiamondBack, tears welled in my eyes. God wants our oceans and lakes and rivers to teem with life.
On my walk last night I tried to work out with God why I’ve been so unhappy this week. Toward the end of a mildly frustrating, brassy-heaven walk, I heard “Coffee!” At first, I thought this was referring to my actual intake of the decaf I recently secure via Jen Bean via Josh Potter from Standing Stone: Perhaps the intake of some other chemical from the coffee was depressing me. But after reentering the house, it occurred to me that wasn’t it at all. This decaf coffee was a great example of me treating something as a must-do that clearly is not. So here was the answer: I have been unhappy because I have been treating as musts things that are not.
Was reading Hebrews 6:1-3 this morning which lays out the very basics of the faith:1. Repent from any attempts to work toward “goodness”2. Have Faith in God’s forgiveness in Christ3. Baptism at the start of your allegiance to Christ4. Laying on of Hands - to receive the Holy Spirit? And Gifts?5. Resurrection of the dead (for those “in Christ"?)6. Judgement in the age or everlasting judgementMy reflection is that I have largely ignored “judgement” as a primary thing in my toolbox when preaching the gospel and I wonder if I should be rethinking how I communicate the message.[To] the last persons I’ve been involved in helping to allegiance to Christ […] I spoke heavily of the love of God, of their purpose is spreading that love, and becoming like him. The wife was baptized […] and we laid hands on her and prayed for the Holy Spirit. I think she would be able to articulate points 1-5.But I don’t think I shared much of anything about the judgement and that concerns me, as it’s part of the core.If you were teaching a new person about the faith, how would you discuss the judgement?
me:
A smattering of thoughts:“We are not coherent when we applaud justice and jeer judgment” (Dale Allison, Night Comes, which I can loan you via Kindle if you’d like). You can’t have the former without the latter. How do we expect God to deal correctly with everything unless He applies His judgement to it first?I, for one, look forward to being judged by Jesus. It’s the beginning of how He is going to set me right. It’s the beginning of how He is going to set everything right.And it dovetails nicely with other parts to the gospel with which you’re more comfortable: “God is now declaring to men that all people everywhere should repent, because He has fixed a day in which He will judge the world in righteousness through a Man whom He has appointed, having furnished proof to all men by raising Him from the dead” (Acts 17:30b-31).It may also help to bring this down to a human level: Social justice warriors belie themselves if they ever say “don’t judge me,” for judgement is the basis of all their work.See also Psalm 7.
friend:
Those are good thoughts and very helpful. If you like Justice, you can’t ignore judgement. I think because the nature of the judgement is so complex and confusing it’s easier to just ignore. But God will make all things right, and weigh the scales, so to speak, which is good.One follow-up. What role does “faith in Christ” have on that day? The righteousness that is by faith, does that change the nature of the judgement? Or is that dealing with HOW we are live right now? That is, we can access Christ now, through faith, which can transform us to live as He desires, which will spare us some judgement. Or when we get to the end and all our misdeeds are judged, we pull out a “get out of trouble free” card by appealing to our faith in Christ.How do you see these working? Faith in Christ and not our works. But then our works being judged.
me:
First, a brief excursus: It’s not just misdeeds that are judged: It’s our good deeds, too. “For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad” (2 Corinthians 5:10). See also Ephesians 6:7-8, among other places. “Judge” is not (or should not be) always be synonymous with “judge negatively.” For example, I judge [a lot of] work you’ve done for […] people […] to be good.Now, in reply to your question about the role of faith in Christ (or, as some translators are now favoring and as I will now throw in for fun as a very distracting aside, “the faithfulness of Christ”—wha!?) on the Day of Judgement, I think you’re basically right when you write, “[W]e can access Christ now, through faith, which can transform us to live as He desires, which will spare us some [negative] judgment.”There is no get-out-of-trouble-free card. Psalms, Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, the Prophets, Jesus, Paul, and John of Patmos are clear that we will all be judged, both good deeds and misdeeds, no exception. There is no partiality with God. And we have all fallen short in at least some measure, so we will all undergo at least some negative judgment. Those of us who fall very far short (God no doubt taking into account each of our starting points) will face much more negative judgment. For those folks, it really will be a terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the living God.This is where faith comes in. We “persevere in doing good” (Romans 2:7) by faith in and faithfulness to Christ (cf. Hebrews 11). It is by right living that we gain “the life of the Age.”Does the centrality in all this of doing good mean:- that there are paths other than Christianity to a relatively pleasant judgment day for any given person? Of course it does! But those paths, whatever they’re called, are not different paths at their core, for the degree to which they lead to affirming judgment is the degree to which they adhere to God’s Word, that is, to Jesus, whether the people following those paths know it or not (c.f. Emeth following Tash in The Last Battle). Jesus is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, whether you call Him by name or not.- that we’re not saved by grace (i.e., a gift)? Of course not! We live and move and have our very being in God. Our very existence is a gift. How much more so our persisting into deathless life after death in the blissful, direct presence of Him whom we’re not even worthy to see! We who are made of dust! That’s saved by grace.
friend:
Wow. So much here:Faith in Christ ensures Everlasting life becomes “The faithfulness of Christ ensures the life “of this age”. That’s a head spin from my evangelical roots.In light of what you’ve written here, which I am inclined to agree with, I need another level of clarity as maybe you see it. So I present an example:- Bill lives an ok but mostly selfish life. Most of his works are just for his own gain, he cheats on his wife, they get divorced, he is a lame father but not abusive, he succeeds in business, hordes his wealth, etc. When he is 75 he finds out he has stage 4 lung cancer and has only weeks to live. As he nears the end of his life, he is watching the television when Franklin Graham comes on the screen. Franklin is half way through his salvation message when a malfunction to Bill’s breathing tube shuts off the oxygen and he dies a few moments later before the end of the message.- Mark lives an ok but mostly selfish life. Most of his works are just for his own gain, he cheats on his wife, they get divorced, he is a lame father but not abusive, he succeeds in business, hordes his wealth, etc. When he is 75 he finds out he has stage 4 lung cancer and has only weeks to live. As he nears the end of his life, he is watching the television when Franklin Graham comes on the screen. Franklin delivers his message on salvation through believing in Christ and saying a prayer of Faith. Mark is deeply moved, regretting his past sins and trusting in Jesus. As Mark is dying he utters the words that he repents of his sins and asks Jesus into his heart. Then he dies.At the judgement day what happens to Bill and what happens to Mark. Are their fates identical. Is Mark’s any different at all having “come to faith” before the clock ran out?And if nothing is different, then we really are talking about Salvation in real terms of relationship with Christ that transforms, and the benefit on judgement day will be in the proportion to which we lived out that transformation in the world. No real benefit for just a statement of belief.
me:
I want to be clear that I’m spitballing. With sometimes forceful rhetoric (as usual), yes. But just spitballing. The rhetoric is just the best way to get an idea across and therefore to have the idea tested. Please push back. I’m ready to be corrected.Now, onto your question:You and I have already reviewed the possibility of postmortem evangelism as being at least biblically implied in 1 Peter 3:19 & 4:6, John 5:25, Revelation 21:25, Romans 8:38-39, and perhaps 1 Corinthian 15:29, so I don’t need to make the case to you that Bill’s chances of Making It to the Party don’t end with his demise. But your question isn’t about his Making It to the Party. It’s about whether his pre-Party judgment will be less tolerable than Mark’s.Assuming Bill and Mark are noetic twins and would thus reply identically to Jesus, the answer is no, with the exception that Bill will have to do his regretting in front of the Throne instead of in front of the TV.To me, 1 Timothy 5:8, James 2, and, like, the entirety of 1 John make clear that, as you say, there is “no real benefit for just a statement of belief.”There does, however, remain an urgency to “coming to faith” in this life because it is this life that will be judged. The sooner you repent, the sooner you can get busy Living (or, if you prefer, building out of “gold, silver, and precious stones” [1 Corinthians 3:12]).And as you’d be the first to say, the statement of belief does have a benefit—provided it does not remain “just” a statement of belief, provided we’re not “believing in vain” (1 Corinthians 15:2), provided the seeds of the Word take strong root in our hearts (Matthew 13:18-23, etc.). I don’t need to tell you that our belief in an infinitely kind God who stoops to know us and redeem us and enjoy us and love us is plenty for some people (most people?) to really get going on the narrow gate to Life.
friend:
Yeah, this all makes sense to me and we’ve discussed before, but it does seem to run in the face of so much evangelical work. So much effort to talk about “salvation through faith in Christ” and salvation being ”from judgement.“ So many people rejoicing over the sinner prayers prayed on the deathbeds. How did we get here?One last quick one: So over and over again it talks about “salvation by faith” or that “we are justified by faith.” etc. In Romans 4:5 it basically says the opposite of what we’re saying here about judgement of our works: “You’re justified by faith alone, and not by works.” So what good is the “justification”? Or what am I justified from by faith alone?Is this whole business of justification and salvation just misunderstood as to what the benefits are? We say “salvation” as if people agree what that means.Is the whole thing about “Salvation is relationship with God” which is available to you now through faith, and not through works. So you are not “made right” by your works, you’re just made right by your faith in him (leading to relationship with him lest you believed in vain). So go to him, be transformed by him, because how you live matters, you’re works will be judged, and you can only live transformed if you have relationship with him.
me:
I still rejoice over a sinner’s prayer prayed on deathbeds, inasmuch as it represents true repentance from dead works and real trust in God—just not with a “phew!” about the avoidance of hell or annihilation.I think we got here because as Americans we’re focused on maximizing measurable results. And prayers prayed or hands raised is much easier to measure than love points. Mix in easy transportation, mass communication, and the democratization of hermeneutics, and there you have it. Incidentally, I don’t think the Roman Catholics or the Orthodox have quite the same problem. (They have different ones.)Now, regarding salvation and justification, Romans 4:5 doesn’t contradict the ideas we (and let’s hope the Holy Spirit) are developing here. It complements them: None of us, not even the best among us, deserves to live forever or to be (eventually) treated as though we have acted faultlessly. That these things will happen to us is 100% the gift of God. To receive this gift, we believe Him, entrust ourselves to Him, and begin to follow Him. In that sense, it’s really not that different from what you and I grew up believing.All we’re adding is that at some point after the normal course of this life, each of us will have to give an account of what we’ve done, pre-Jesus and post-Jesus both—and that following the words of the New Testament, including those of our Lord, this assessment has an important place in our suite of morally motivating ideas.Actually, allow me a quick revision. What we’re actually adding is that:- we, the people who have already made profession of trust in and allegiance to Jesus in this life, will be part of the Judgment,- everybody gets the get-out-of-trouble-free card after the Judgement, provided there’s true repentance, and- therefore the traditional rejection of postmortem evangelism is in error.These are our serious departures from the tradition we grew up in.
What I really want in this instance, as George MacDonald taught me, isn’t the forgiveness for the consequences of my sins (e.g., the wrath of God) but freedom from my actual sins. I’d like to become the father that doesn’t snap at his son. I don’t want an imputed purity. I actually want to be, myself, pure.
On the subject of the solo satisfaction of biological and psychological drives (e.g., eating, masturbating, sightseeing): As long as they are not harmful and they are undertaken with thanksgiving, they are done in love, and are thus good.